large-ish lawn tractor advice

[Emery Davis]

Hi,

Our Countax 800 is giving up the ghost after 10 years of service. It
worked well (when it worked, but was very finicky) but was never really
a big enough tractor for our needs. We have about 12k m2 of lawn, with
lots of beds and specimen trees to go around; the Countax with it's
small box, that usually doesn't fill up, can take 4 hours for a cut
during spring. I'm hoping for some advice on a bigger diesel machine,
hopefully I'll be able to pick one up used.

Requirements are:

- diesel
- large grass box (500 l - ish)
- rear central collection with large passage (must work on wet grass)
- would prefer high lift collector, but must be hydraulic
- cutting deck probably not to exceed 140 cm, 122 minimum
- aluminium deck

Examples I know that would fit the bill are Iseki SXG 19, or Kubota G23.
There are probably some zero turning radius (Kubota GZD 21 IIRC) that
would work. (Because of fast growth and uneven ground helicoidal is out.)

Any opinions on Iseki vs Kubota? How about Gianni Ferrari? Any other
brands I should look for, that might show up on the used market?

Thanks,

-E

[ryncharlton]

Hi i cant comment on the two you suggested but if its any help at all
i can say that the Kubota diesel engines are very simple and , ver
tough litte engines which are long lasting and easy to maintain , s
purely for the reputation of the engine i would be swayed towards th
Kubota

Ryan

;966510']Hi,
Our Countax 800 is giving up the ghost after 10 years of service. It
worked well (when it worked, but was very finicky) but was never really
a big enough tractor for our needs. We have about 12k m2 of lawn, with
lots of beds and specimen trees to go around; the Countax with it's
small box, that usually doesn't fill up, can take 4 hours for a cut
during spring. I'm hoping for some advice on a bigger diesel machine,
hopefully I'll be able to pick one up used.
Requirements a
- diesel
- large grass box (500 l - ish)
- rear central collection with large passage (must work on wet grass)
- would prefer high lift collector, but must be hydraulic
- cutting deck probably not to exceed 140 cm, 122 minimum
- aluminium deck
Examples I know that would fit the bill are Iseki SXG 19, or Kubot
G23.
There are probably some zero turning radius (Kubota GZD 21 IIRC) that
would work. (Because of fast growth and uneven ground helicoidal i
out.)
Any opinions on Iseki vs Kubota? How about Gianni Ferrari? Any other
brands I should look for, that might show up on the used market?
Thanks,
-

--
ryncharlton

[Rod]

Hi i cant comment on the two you suggested but if its any help at all ,
i can say that the Kubota diesel engines are very simple and , very
tough litte engines which are long lasting and easy to maintain , so
purely for the reputation of the engine i would be swayed towards the
Kubota
Ryan

;966510']Hi,
Our Countax 800 is giving up the ghost after 10 years of service. It
worked well (when it worked, but was very finicky) but was never really
a big enough tractor for our needs. We have about 12k m2 of lawn, with
lots of beds and specimen trees to go around; the Countax with it's
small box, that usually doesn't fill up, can take 4 hours for a cut
during spring. I'm hoping for some advice on a bigger diesel machine,
hopefully I'll be able to pick one up used.
Requirements a
- diesel
- large grass box (500 l - ish)
- rear central collection with large passage (must work on wet grass)
- would prefer high lift collector, but must be hydraulic
- cutting deck probably not to exceed 140 cm, 122 minimum
- aluminium deck
Examples I know that would fit the bill are Iseki SXG 19, or Kubota
G23.
There are probably some zero turning radius (Kubota GZD 21 IIRC) that
would work. (Because of fast growth and uneven ground helicoidal is
out.)
Any opinions on Iseki vs Kubota? How about Gianni Ferrari? Any other
brands I should look for, that might show up on the used market?

-E>

ryncharlton

My experience at work was with general purpose compact tractors and I can second the recommendation for Kubota, their little diesels are great, in about 15 years I never knew any engine trouble, just oil to change and oil and fuel filters to change. Our useage ran into thousands of hours.

Rod

[Emery Davis]

Post by Rod

Hi i cant comment on the two you suggested but if its any help at all ,
i can say that the Kubota diesel engines are very simple and , very
tough litte engines which are long lasting and easy to maintain , so
purely for the reputation of the engine i would be swayed towards the
Kubota
Ryan

[snip]

Post by Rod
My experience at work was with general purpose compact tractors and I
can second the recommendation for Kubota, their little diesels are
great, in about 15 years I never knew any engine trouble, just oil to
change and oil and fuel filters to change. Our useage ran into
thousands of hours.
Rod

Thanks guys.

Yes, Kubota engines are good kit and very good on fuel as well. We have
a little Kubota micro with a 21hp engine, it has been very solid. Not
well adapted to lawns but good for orchard work and cleaning up fields.

The Iseki engines are also well regarded, at least around here.
Lifetime of a good mower is reported to be in excess of 5k hours.

One thing I don't really understand is the trade off between horse power
and displacement. For example the sxg19 and g21 are both 21 hp, but the
Kubota has a displacement of around 700cc whereas the Iseki is around
1000 cc. The Iseki guy was saying that the larger engine is better, but
even looking at it naively I'd think the smaller would be better on
fuel. And of course it's far more complicated than that... But why
would it be necessarily better to have a larger displacement?

-E

[Charlie Pridham]

Post by Emery Davis

Post by Rod

Hi i cant comment on the two you suggested but if its any help at all ,
i can say that the Kubota diesel engines are very simple and , very
tough litte engines which are long lasting and easy to maintain , so
purely for the reputation of the engine i would be swayed towards the
Kubota
Ryan

[snip]

Post by Rod
My experience at work was with general purpose compact tractors and I
can second the recommendation for Kubota, their little diesels are
great, in about 15 years I never knew any engine trouble, just oil to
change and oil and fuel filters to change. Our useage ran into
thousands of hours.
Rod

Thanks guys.
Yes, Kubota engines are good kit and very good on fuel as well. We have
a little Kubota micro with a 21hp engine, it has been very solid. Not
well adapted to lawns but good for orchard work and cleaning up fields.
The Iseki engines are also well regarded, at least around here.
Lifetime of a good mower is reported to be in excess of 5k hours.
One thing I don't really understand is the trade off between horse power
and displacement. For example the sxg19 and g21 are both 21 hp, but the
Kubota has a displacement of around 700cc whereas the Iseki is around
1000 cc. The Iseki guy was saying that the larger engine is better, but
even looking at it naively I'd think the smaller would be better on
fuel. And of course it's far more complicated than that... But why
would it be necessarily better to have a larger displacement?
-E

I would have thought the larger engine would not be working as hard to do
the same work,

[Martin]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 17:44:53 +0200, Emery Davis

Post by Emery Davis

Post by Rod

Hi i cant comment on the two you suggested but if its any help at all ,
i can say that the Kubota diesel engines are very simple and , very
tough litte engines which are long lasting and easy to maintain , so
purely for the reputation of the engine i would be swayed towards the
Kubota
Ryan

[snip]

Post by Rod
My experience at work was with general purpose compact tractors and I
can second the recommendation for Kubota, their little diesels are
great, in about 15 years I never knew any engine trouble, just oil to
change and oil and fuel filters to change. Our useage ran into
thousands of hours.
Rod

Thanks guys.
Yes, Kubota engines are good kit and very good on fuel as well. We have
a little Kubota micro with a 21hp engine, it has been very solid. Not
well adapted to lawns but good for orchard work and cleaning up fields.
The Iseki engines are also well regarded, at least around here.
Lifetime of a good mower is reported to be in excess of 5k hours.
One thing I don't really understand is the trade off between horse power
and displacement. For example the sxg19 and g21 are both 21 hp, but the
Kubota has a displacement of around 700cc whereas the Iseki is around
1000 cc. The Iseki guy was saying that the larger engine is better, but
even looking at it naively I'd think the smaller would be better on
fuel. And of course it's far more complicated than that... But why
would it be necessarily better to have a larger displacement?

Slower revving, less wear?

[Emery Davis]

Post by Martin
On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 17:44:53 +0200, Emery Davis

Post by Emery Davis

Post by Rod

Hi i cant comment on the two you suggested but if its any help at all ,
i can say that the Kubota diesel engines are very simple and , very
tough litte engines which are long lasting and easy to maintain , so
purely for the reputation of the engine i would be swayed towards the
Kubota
Ryan

[snip]

Post by Rod
My experience at work was with general purpose compact tractors and I
can second the recommendation for Kubota, their little diesels are
great, in about 15 years I never knew any engine trouble, just oil to
change and oil and fuel filters to change. Our useage ran into
thousands of hours.
Rod

Thanks guys.
Yes, Kubota engines are good kit and very good on fuel as well. We have
a little Kubota micro with a 21hp engine, it has been very solid. Not
well adapted to lawns but good for orchard work and cleaning up fields.
The Iseki engines are also well regarded, at least around here.
Lifetime of a good mower is reported to be in excess of 5k hours.
One thing I don't really understand is the trade off between horse power
and displacement. For example the sxg19 and g21 are both 21 hp, but the
Kubota has a displacement of around 700cc whereas the Iseki is around
1000 cc. The Iseki guy was saying that the larger engine is better, but
even looking at it naively I'd think the smaller would be better on
fuel. And of course it's far more complicated than that... But why
would it be necessarily better to have a larger displacement?

Slower revving, less wear?

Yes, that could be it. The Isekis do seem to be somewhat quieter also.

[Dave Liquorice]

Post by Martin
Slower revving, less wear?

Maybe more torque from the larger capcity engine as well. Sheer BHP isn't
the complete picture.

[Emery Davis]

Post by Dave Liquorice

Post by Martin
Slower revving, less wear?

Maybe more torque from the larger capcity engine as well. Sheer BHP isn't
the complete picture.

Reviving this to thank you all for the help. Your suggestions were
right on re engine size.

I demoed an Iseki sxg19 (2008, 600h) and a Kubota G21 (2003, 1500h) last
Saturday, from different local dealers. Both have different advantages:
the Kubota was more compact and a bit more maneuverable, it has electric
assist steering where the Iseki has hydraulic steering. The Iseki mows
at a lower rev and is quieter, but above all has a larger grass chute,
larger box, better hydraulics, and much heavier construction: e.g. the
front axle is cast iron like an agri tractor, the central "bridge" and
rods are much thicker. This adds about 100 kg of weight over the Kubota
but having broken the Countax multiple times I'm willing to live with
that. The Kubota fellow even explained that another client had broken
one on a curb, not exactly a point in his favour!

A couple of other things I preferred about the Iseki were higher
clearance, 2 cutting blades (vs 3), better deck design -- the Kubota
requires you to get off the tractor when emptying and pull a lever that
clears the deck of grass -- and much harder to clog. Also a better
guarantee, through 2013 as opposed to 3 months.

Neither had an aluminium deck, the sxg19 is 8 mm steel, the Kubota a
little thinner but still very heavy. (The older Kubota had a little
rust on the inside of the deck, while the Iseki was still clean).

So, I take delivery of the Iseki on Saturday next, and although the
Countax has faithfully served to 10 years I will be glad to see its
back. Got a pretty decent trade in for it considering condition though.

Thanks again.