Gone very quiet here - tomato volunteers

[David]

Earlier in the year we chucked some used compost onto a bed at the front
of the house (North facing, partially shaded).

We have a few tomato volunteers, and the biggest is putting out flowers.

In the past, in very good years, tomatoes have cropped until the first
frost which could be November.
So there is a chance of a small tomato or two.

Biggest question now is if to lift some and re-pot an the South facing
decking or just leave them to it.

This is the first year for a while we haven't grown tomatoes.

Cheers



Dave R

[tahiri]

Post by David
Earlier in the year we chucked some used compost onto a bed at the front
of the house (North facing, partially shaded).
We have a few tomato volunteers, and the biggest is putting out flowers.
In the past, in very good years, tomatoes have cropped until the first
frost which could be November.
So there is a chance of a small tomato or two.
Biggest question now is if to lift some and re-pot an the South facing
decking or just leave them to it.
This is the first year for a while we haven't grown tomatoes.
Cheers
Dave R

What did you decide to do in the end? I have been meaning to grow my
first tomatoes for the last couple of years but haven't got round to it
until it is too late. With no experience to go on I would have left the
flowering one alone and tried different options with the others. Of
course they have probably drowned by now but that won't be your fault!

[David]

Post by tahiri

Post by David
Earlier in the year we chucked some used compost onto a bed at the
front of the house (North facing, partially shaded).
We have a few tomato volunteers, and the biggest is putting out flowers.
In the past, in very good years, tomatoes have cropped until the first
frost which could be November.
So there is a chance of a small tomato or two.
Biggest question now is if to lift some and re-pot an the South facing
decking or just leave them to it.
This is the first year for a while we haven't grown tomatoes.

<snip>

Post by tahiri
What did you decide to do in the end? I have been meaning to grow my
first tomatoes for the last couple of years but haven't got round to it
until it is too late. With no experience to go on I would have left the
flowering one alone and tried different options with the others. Of
course they have probably drowned by now but that won't be your fault!

Inspired neglect.
They are still growing strongly and the largest looks about ready for a
supporting cane and the side shoots removing.

I haven't checked if the flowers have set, but not going out in the
pouring rain!

I think the main issue is that tomatoes may not ripen late in the year.

Cheers



Dave R

[Nick Maclaren]

Post by David
They are still growing strongly and the largest looks about ready for a
supporting cane and the side shoots removing.
I haven't checked if the flowers have set, but not going out in the
pouring rain!
I think the main issue is that tomatoes may not ripen late in the year.

They won't. Even the tomatoes in my greenhouse are much less sweet
and flavoursome than they were and, in a month, will stop ripening.
That doesn't mean they are unusable for cooking, but they make a very
indifferent salad (like most supermarket ones) and aren't worth eating
as a fruit.

However, ANY fresh vegetable in our dark, wet winters is worth eating.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[Jeff Layman]

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by David
They are still growing strongly and the largest looks about ready for a
supporting cane and the side shoots removing.
I haven't checked if the flowers have set, but not going out in the
pouring rain!
I think the main issue is that tomatoes may not ripen late in the year.

They won't. Even the tomatoes in my greenhouse are much less sweet
and flavoursome than they were and, in a month, will stop ripening.
That doesn't mean they are unusable for cooking, but they make a very
indifferent salad (like most supermarket ones) and aren't worth eating
as a fruit.

Against my better judgement, I tried sowing a few of the seeds left over
from a Marmande packet. They were sown in a propagator in late February,
germinated within a couple of weeks, then sat there for almost 4 months
(in the conservatory) without growing past the seedling stage. I moved
them to the greenhouse for another month, then put them outside. The
first flowers appeared in July, on plants which have remained less than
60cm high, and I've just taken some fruits off. They were ripe (red with
a partly soft skin), and more or less tasteless. Give me
Moroccan/Italian/Spanish grown tomatoes from a supermarket any day. It's
probably down to the lousy summer, and the peat-free compost I had to
use this year (Melcourt Sylvagrow, which has contained peat and always
been great in previous years). Some hot peppers were even worse,
flowering in early September after being sown at the same time as the
tomatoes. Even some ornamentals were poor.

Post by Nick Maclaren
However, ANY fresh vegetable in our dark, wet winters is worth eating.

Perhaps in terms of nutritive value, but that doesn't make it palatable
(although I've noted previously your "adventurous" approach when it
comes to the taste of fruit and veg!). :-))

[Nick Maclaren]

Post by Jeff Layman
Against my better judgement, I tried sowing a few of the seeds left over
from a Marmande packet. They were sown in a propagator in late February,
germinated within a couple of weeks, then sat there for almost 4 months
(in the conservatory) without growing past the seedling stage. I moved
them to the greenhouse for another month, then put them outside. The
first flowers appeared in July, on plants which have remained less than
60cm high, and I've just taken some fruits off. They were ripe (red with
a partly soft skin), and more or less tasteless. Give me
Moroccan/Italian/Spanish grown tomatoes from a supermarket any day. It's
probably down to the lousy summer, and the peat-free compost I had to
use this year (Melcourt Sylvagrow, which has contained peat and always
been great in previous years). Some hot peppers were even worse,
flowering in early September after being sown at the same time as the
tomatoes. Even some ornamentals were poor.

As you say. I had to sow my chillis twice - and they were kept in a
south-facing conservatory! My tomatoes tasted pretty good, but they
were small varieties known for flavour, and grown in Real Soil. Until
the sun went away, of course.

Post by Jeff Layman
Perhaps in terms of nutritive value, but that doesn't make it palatable
(although I've noted previously your "adventurous" approach when it
comes to the taste of fruit and veg!). :-))

A fair comment :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[Spike]

Post by Jeff Layman
Against my better judgement, I tried sowing a few of the seeds left over
from a Marmande packet. They were sown in a propagator in late February,
germinated within a couple of weeks, then sat there for almost 4 months
(in the conservatory) without growing past the seedling stage. I moved
them to the greenhouse for another month, then put them outside. The
first flowers appeared in July, on plants which have remained less than
60cm high, and I've just taken some fruits off. They were ripe (red with
a partly soft skin), and more or less tasteless. Give me
Moroccan/Italian/Spanish grown tomatoes from a supermarket any day. It's
probably down to the lousy summer, and the peat-free compost I had to
use this year (Melcourt Sylvagrow, which has contained peat and always
been great in previous years). Some hot peppers were even worse,
flowering in early September after being sown at the same time as the
tomatoes. Even some ornamentals were poor.

Interesting about the compost. Mrs Spike is the gardener here, I just do
the heavy work LOL. But this year we have had very poor results indeed with
potted bedding plants and shrubs, and we were wondering what we were doing
wrong.

Coincidentally, SWMBO was complaining about the poor quality of the compost
she had been buying (no names, no pack drill), with various bags of it
being smelly (phenol-type odours) or mouldy, or having very poor structure.
There have been suggestions that much of today’s environmentally-friendly
compost contains broken-down grass that had previously been treated with
chemicals for various reasons.

Following some research, she had previously discovered a peat-based compost
from a source that claimed to be ‘peat neutral’ (rather in the manner of
‘carbon neutral’, I suppose), and she now can’t stop singing its praises:
it smells sweet, and has lovely structure.

The upshot is that she is busy repotting all the shrubs that had been
subjected to the poor-quality compost. One such was a hydrangea, about 8’ x
8’, far too heavy to move, that was treated earlier in the summer with a
top dressing of the new compost, and its growth and flowering were
spectacular - which is what started us on the hunt for the reasons why
other plants had failed to thrive. So I’m not surprised to read of your
problems with the tomato seeds, it might be worth doing some investigating…

[Nick Maclaren]

Post by Spike
Coincidentally, SWMBO was complaining about the poor quality of the compost
she had been buying (no names, no pack drill), with various bags of it
being smelly (phenol-type odours) or mouldy, or having very poor structure.
There have been suggestions that much of today's environmentally-friendly
compost contains broken-down grass that had previously been treated with
chemicals for various reasons.

I believe that is true of many or most soilless composts. I used to
buy 'John Innes' seed composts, until my only easily accessible garden
start to stock only Westland, and Westland took over J. Arthur Bowers.
My emergence rate (even of pre-germinated seeds) hit the floor, so I
measured what was in them. They were almost entirely silt (probably
from beet washing), with a small amount of peat (?) dust - which
explained their uselessness. Westland was uncooperative when I
complained.

I now make my own, which is a faff, but it works.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[Jeff Layman]

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Spike
Coincidentally, SWMBO was complaining about the poor quality of the compost
she had been buying (no names, no pack drill), with various bags of it
being smelly (phenol-type odours) or mouldy, or having very poor structure.
There have been suggestions that much of today's environmentally-friendly
compost contains broken-down grass that had previously been treated with
chemicals for various reasons.

I believe that is true of many or most soilless composts. I used to
buy 'John Innes' seed composts, until my only easily accessible garden
start to stock only Westland, and Westland took over J. Arthur Bowers.
My emergence rate (even of pre-germinated seeds) hit the floor, so I
measured what was in them. They were almost entirely silt (probably
from beet washing), with a small amount of peat (?) dust - which
explained their uselessness. Westland was uncooperative when I
complained.
I now make my own, which is a faff, but it works.

Have you tried Clover or Forker products? They appear to still contain
peat, but in what percentage is unclear. At least they're not "peat
free". Unfortunately, stockists are almost unknown in the south or south
east, but there appear to be quite a few in the Midlands and
north/west/east of that area. Some are available from Amazon, but of
course delivery charges are pretty high.

[Nick Maclaren]

Post by Jeff Layman
Have you tried Clover or Forker products? They appear to still contain
peat, but in what percentage is unclear. At least they're not "peat
free". Unfortunately, stockists are almost unknown in the south or south
east, but there appear to be quite a few in the Midlands and
north/west/east of that area. Some are available from Amazon, but of
course delivery charges are pretty high.

No, because Cambridge is solidly in the south-east! My composts are
also peat-free, but I have a suitable soil to use as a basis for JI
composts (60% fine sand, 18% silt and 22% clay, with quite a lot of
humus where I have put my compost heap compost on it). My seed one
is equal parts coir and sieved, largely sterilised, soil; and my
potting one is equal parts sieved heap compost and sieved soil.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[Chris Hogg]

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Spike
Coincidentally, SWMBO was complaining about the poor quality of the compost
she had been buying (no names, no pack drill), with various bags of it
being smelly (phenol-type odours) or mouldy, or having very poor structure.
There have been suggestions that much of today's environmentally-friendly
compost contains broken-down grass that had previously been treated with
chemicals for various reasons.

I believe that is true of many or most soilless composts. I used to
buy 'John Innes' seed composts, until my only easily accessible garden
start to stock only Westland, and Westland took over J. Arthur Bowers.
My emergence rate (even of pre-germinated seeds) hit the floor, so I
measured what was in them. They were almost entirely silt (probably
from beet washing), with a small amount of peat (?) dust - which
explained their uselessness. Westland was uncooperative when I
complained.
I now make my own, which is a faff, but it works.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I used to work for a company that mined ball clay in South Devon, for
the pottery industry. Ball clay comes in seams, interbedded with low
quality clay and lignite, which were treated as a waste product, and
simply dumped either onto tips or old worked out pits. Either way it
was a waste product and cost money the dispose of it.

It seemed a reasonable product to add to garden composts, but the
major compost manufacturers turned it down on the basis it was too
expensive. Of course the price had to include some handling at our
end, but it was basically a waste product.

Garden compost suppliers go for the very cheapest ingredients they can
get hold of, which also seems to include quality. All they're
interested in is bulk.

[Jeff Layman]

Post by Chris Hogg
Garden compost suppliers go for the very cheapest ingredients they can
get hold of, which also seems to include quality. All they're
interested in is bulk.

I believe it's because, in general, the cost of ingredients isn't the
problem. What costs is their extraction and transport, especially for
fairly heavy things in bulk, and that's what in the end we're paying
for. Sand and gravel are more-or-less free at source, but they're
costing more and more at the sheds these days!

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Chris Hogg
Garden compost suppliers go for the very cheapest ingredients they can
get hold of, which also seems to include quality. All they're
interested in is bulk.

I believe it's because, in general, the cost of ingredients isn't the
problem. What costs is their extraction and transport, especially for
fairly heavy things in bulk, and that's what in the end we're paying
for. Sand and gravel are more-or-less free at source, but they're
costing more and more at the sheds these days!

Yes. Coal, oil, uranium & gas are as free as wind and solar power.
The problems and costs arise when you have to extract them all and turn
them into something that works reliably.

[David Rance]

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Spike
Coincidentally, SWMBO was complaining about the poor quality of the compost
she had been buying (no names, no pack drill), with various bags of it
being smelly (phenol-type odours) or mouldy, or having very poor structure.
There have been suggestions that much of today's environmentally-friendly
compost contains broken-down grass that had previously been treated with
chemicals for various reasons.

I believe that is true of many or most soilless composts. I used to
buy 'John Innes' seed composts, until my only easily accessible garden
start to stock only Westland, and Westland took over J. Arthur Bowers.
My emergence rate (even of pre-germinated seeds) hit the floor, so I
measured what was in them. They were almost entirely silt (probably
from beet washing), with a small amount of peat (?) dust - which
explained their uselessness. Westland was uncooperative when I
complained.
I now make my own, which is a faff, but it works.

That explains the poor growth of my seedlings this year. Once I'd
planted them out, particularly the tomatoes, there was an explosion in
growth!

David

[Vir Campestris]

Post by Nick Maclaren
They won't. Even the tomatoes in my greenhouse are much less sweet
and flavoursome than they were and, in a month, will stop ripening.
That doesn't mean they are unusable for cooking, but they make a very
indifferent salad (like most supermarket ones) and aren't worth eating
as a fruit.
However, ANY fresh vegetable in our dark, wet winters is worth eating.

Our neighbour had so many green tomatoes she didn't know what to do with
them - so gave some to us. Some are sitting in a paper bag with a banana
to see if that will do the trick.

If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

Andy

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Vir Campestris

They won't.  Even the tomatoes in my greenhouse are much less sweet
and flavoursome than they were and, in a month, will stop ripening.
That doesn't mean they are unusable for cooking, but they make a very
indifferent salad (like most supermarket ones) and aren't worth eating
as a fruit.
However, ANY fresh vegetable in our dark, wet winters is worth eating.

Our neighbour had so many green tomatoes she didn't know what to do with
them - so gave some to us. Some are sitting in a paper bag with a banana
to see if that will do the trick.
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

Green tomato and apple chutney is nectar of the gods

Post by Vir Campestris
Andy

[Joy Beeson]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

[Nick Maclaren]

Post by Joy Beeson
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

You don't want them TOO green - if they are very unripe, they have
rather a lot of alkaloids and are bitter and slightly toxic.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Joy Beeson
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

You don't want them TOO green - if they are very unripe, they have
rather a lot of alkaloids and are bitter and slightly toxic.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Tomatoes are in the same group of plants as potatoes, aubergine,
peppers, chillies, deadly nightshade, belladonna, datura...

Want to trip on atropine?

[Jeff Layman]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Joy Beeson
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

You don't want them TOO green - if they are very unripe, they have
rather a lot of alkaloids and are bitter and slightly toxic.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Tomatoes are in the same group of plants as potatoes, aubergine,
peppers, chillies, deadly nightshade, belladonna, datura...
Want to trip on atropine?

You'd be better off using hyoscine(scopolamine), but then you'd probably
not remember where you'd been on the trip as it causes anterograde
amnesia. :-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Joy Beeson
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

You don't want them TOO green - if they are very unripe, they have
rather a lot of alkaloids and are bitter and slightly toxic.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Tomatoes are in the same group of plants as potatoes, aubergine,
peppers, chillies, deadly nightshade, belladonna, datura...
Want to trip on atropine?

You'd be better off using hyoscine(scopolamine), but then you'd probably
not remember where you'd been on the trip as it causes anterograde
amnesia. :-)

All good witchcraft brewing ingredients.
Wanna fly? We have an ointment for that.

[Jeff Layman]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Joy Beeson
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

You don't want them TOO green - if they are very unripe, they have
rather a lot of alkaloids and are bitter and slightly toxic.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Tomatoes are in the same group of plants as potatoes, aubergine,
peppers, chillies, deadly nightshade, belladonna, datura...
Want to trip on atropine?

You'd be better off using hyoscine(scopolamine), but then you'd probably
not remember where you'd been on the trip as it causes anterograde
amnesia. :-)

All good witchcraft brewing ingredients.
Wanna fly? We have an ointment for that.

Often containing atropine and aconitine.

When I was a pharmacy student well over 50 years ago one of the
"practical" lessons was to experience the effect of 2.4mg atropine taken
as single dose. It wasn't pleasant as it was a warm day and body
temperature rose quickly as sweating was suppressed, with a completely
dry mouth, fully dilated pupils (bright light was not nice), and a
continuous heart rate of 140+ beats/min. However, at least I got the
symptoms during the lesson, as several subjects only started
experiencing symptoms when they were on their way home on the tube! On
another occasion we all asked to try touching our tongues with a cut
piece of aconite root. It caused strong tingling followed by local
anaesthesia.

I can't see elf'n'safety allowing those sorts of experiments today!

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Joy Beeson
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

You don't want them TOO green - if they are very unripe, they have
rather a lot of alkaloids and are bitter and slightly toxic.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Tomatoes are in the same group of plants as potatoes, aubergine,
peppers, chillies, deadly nightshade, belladonna, datura...
Want to trip on atropine?

You'd be better off using hyoscine(scopolamine), but then you'd probably
not remember where you'd been on the trip as it causes anterograde
amnesia. :-)

All good witchcraft brewing ingredients.
Wanna fly? We have an ointment for that.

Often containing atropine and aconitine.
When I was a pharmacy student well over 50 years ago one of the
"practical" lessons was to experience the effect of 2.4mg atropine taken
as single dose. It wasn't pleasant as it was a warm day and body
temperature rose quickly as sweating was suppressed, with a completely
dry mouth, fully dilated pupils (bright light was not nice), and a
continuous heart rate of 140+ beats/min. However, at least I got the
symptoms during the lesson, as several subjects only started
experiencing symptoms when they were on their way home on the tube! On
another occasion we all asked to try touching our tongues with a cut
piece of aconite root. It caused strong tingling followed by local
anaesthesia.
I can't see elf'n'safety allowing those sorts of experiments today!

We had the physics master with a geiger counter and two samples of U235
moving them closer together so we could hear the chain reaction starting...

"What would happen if they touched sir?"
"We would all be in hospital and I would get the sack"

[Janet]

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Joy Beeson
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

You don't want them TOO green - if they are very unripe, they have
rather a lot of alkaloids and are bitter and slightly toxic.

I'm convinced that a lifetime of ingested dirt, germs,
second hand fag smoke, environmental pollution, stings,
bites, a diet of alkaloids, "off" milk and bad school
dinners etc has produced huge health benefits for our
generation.
What else could have immunised us against ADHD, autism,
gender dysphoria, etc?

Janet.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Janet

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Joy Beeson
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

You don't want them TOO green - if they are very unripe, they have
rather a lot of alkaloids and are bitter and slightly toxic.

I'm convinced that a lifetime of ingested dirt, germs,
second hand fag smoke, environmental pollution, stings,
bites, a diet of alkaloids, "off" milk and bad school
dinners etc has produced huge health benefits for our
generation.
What else could have immunised us against ADHD, autism,
gender dysphoria, etc?
Janet.

LOL!

[Spike]

Post by Janet

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Joy Beeson
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 17:17:49 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris
If not - well, there are recipes for green tomatoes.

If they are green enough, you can pickle them.

You don't want them TOO green - if they are very unripe, they have
rather a lot of alkaloids and are bitter and slightly toxic.

I'm convinced that a lifetime of ingested dirt, germs,
second hand fag smoke, environmental pollution, stings,
bites, a diet of alkaloids, "off" milk and bad school
dinners etc has produced huge health benefits for our
generation.
What else could have immunised us against ADHD, autism,
gender dysphoria, etc?
Janet.

LOL!

WHS!