Fertilizing Bonsai (Chinese Elm)

[lunarstablos]

I am confused as to when to add fertilizer to my Bonsai compost.

I am about to repot the tree in the garden for the summer and do no
know when to fertilize it.

Cheer

--
lunarstablos

[Pam Moore]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:13:27 +0000, lunarstablos

Post by lunarstablos
I am confused as to when to add fertilizer to my Bonsai compost.
I am about to repot the tree in the garden for the summer and do not
know when to fertilize it.

Do you mean you are going to put it in the garden soil for the summer
to grow it on, or put it in a bigger pot?

This is not the time for repotting bonsai if the repotting includes
root pruning. That should be done in Feb before growth starts.
Look in your library or bookshop for a good book on bonsai which gives
details of what soil to use for what types of tree.

Generally I would add a little bonemeal to the compost, buy special
bonsai feed or water with tomato fertiliser during summer. Don't give
it too much nitrogen.
My Zelkova is hardy and stays out all the year but is yours one of the
ones sold as indoor bonsai?

Pam in Bristol

[Christopher Norton]

Post by lunarstablos
I am confused as to when to add fertilizer to my Bonsai compost.
I am about to repot the tree in the garden for the summer and do not
know when to fertilize it.
Cheers
--
lunarstablos

Feed it a very weakened all purpose fertiliser and by weakened I mean
weakened!!!! The buildup of salts in the soil will harm the tree no end.

Keep it outdoors, no need to pot it on as long as you can water plenty.
If your worried then certainly put it in a bigger pot but no root
cutting.

Bonsai means plant in a tray as a literal translation and I have a
couple of pretty big specimens that most people would not equate to
being Bonsai.

Chris (Bonsai beginner of 10 years)

[Jaques d'Alltrades]

Post by Christopher Norton
Chris (Bonsai beginner of 10 years)

I *WILL* get round to sending you all those seeds - remind me if you
haven't got them in a week.

I've got some nice little cotoneasters (horizontalis, and a larger
upright variety) in small pots (lids), a couple of Turkey oaks, some of
I know not what variety, with leaves halfway between clematis and ash
(not a native tree, I collected the seeds in Norwich. Parent *VERY*
tall.) and some Japanese quince.

The elder I mentioned last year is doing well - while not exactly
traditional - it is in a proper tray, but the soil is humped, and the
roots cascade round a stone in the middle. The non-traditional bit is
that the soil is covered in moss and lichen.

The advantage is that you can have a pretty fair-looking bonsai tree in
two years, while your more usual varieties are lagging well behind.

[Christopher Norton]

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades
I *WILL* get round to sending you all those seeds - remind me if you
haven't got them in a week.

No problem, whenever you like.

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades
I've got some nice little cotoneasters (horizontalis, and a larger
upright variety) in small pots (lids), a couple of Turkey oaks, some of
I know not what variety, with leaves halfway between clematis and ash
(not a native tree, I collected the seeds in Norwich. Parent *VERY*
tall.) and some Japanese quince.

I know poor old Norwich gets a bad call but calling it not native is
being a little unfair. <G>
Coteneasters make very interesting subjects if you can balance their
normal growth trait. Turkey Oaks sound another interesting one, albeit
going to be into my retirement before they get really good (why do oaks
grow so slowly?). I have our native oak and it does`nt look any bigger
now than it did 5 years ago!!!

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades
The elder I mentioned last year is doing well - while not exactly
traditional - it is in a proper tray, but the soil is humped, and the
roots cascade round a stone in the middle. The non-traditional bit is
that the soil is covered in moss and lichen.

And why would you call it non-traditional? The essence of Bonsai is to
make it look like a tree in nature but in miniture. Do NOT get caught up
in getting rid of the lichen and moss. Imagine it is a solitary tree at
the top of a field with a gently undulating rise to it and surrounded by
a grass carpet. If you can see
the tree in your minds eye like this your on your way to the reality of
Bonsai.
I like the sound of the cascadeing roots.

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades
The advantage is that you can have a pretty fair-looking bonsai tree in
two years, while your more usual varieties are lagging well behind.
--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Get that little electric box of tricks up and running and let us see the
elder. I`m full of curiosity.

Chris

[Pam Moore]

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:41:17 +0100, Christopher Norton

Post by Christopher Norton
I have our native oak and it does`nt look any bigger
now than it did 5 years ago!!!

The trick is to plant them in a big shallow tray or box, or in open
ground and let them grow on and put on some girth for a few years. If
you keep them confined from the start they will develop frustratingly
slowly. I learned the lesson too late.
If you plant them in open ground, put a flat stone a few inches down,
so a deep tap root doesn't develop.

Pam in Bristol

[Christopher Norton]

Post by Pam Moore
On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:41:17 +0100, Christopher Norton

Post by Christopher Norton
I have our native oak and it does`nt look any bigger
now than it did 5 years ago!!!

The trick is to plant them in a big shallow tray or box, or in open
ground and let them grow on and put on some girth for a few years. If
you keep them confined from the start they will develop frustratingly
slowly. I learned the lesson too late.
If you plant them in open ground, put a flat stone a few inches down,
so a deep tap root doesn't develop.
Pam in Bristol

Having started with a cutting and cuttings dont produce tap roots..........

I have plenty of other trees to play with rather than sit around waiting
for one tree.
Now how about trying to persuade a half inch diameter branch on a
Japanese Maple to grow straight where I want it to. Out with the bending
jacks methinks.

Chris (off to make fertiliser cakes)

[Jaques d'Alltrades]

Post by Christopher Norton
Chris (off to make fertiliser cakes)

Mmmmmm! Fertiliser cakes!

[Jaques d'Alltrades]

Post by Christopher Norton

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades
The elder I mentioned last year is doing well - while not exactly
traditional - it is in a proper tray, but the soil is humped, and the
roots cascade round a stone in the middle. The non-traditional bit is
that the soil is covered in moss and lichen.

And why would you call it non-traditional? The essence of Bonsai is to
make it look like a tree in nature but in miniture. Do NOT get caught up
in getting rid of the lichen and moss.

Don't worry - I started it there deliberately, with a very small species
of bitter cress and some pearlwort which crept in unbidden.

Post by Christopher Norton
Imagine it is a solitary tree at
the top of a field with a gently undulating rise to it and surrounded by
a grass carpet. If you can see
the tree in your minds eye like this your on your way to the reality of
Bonsai.
I like the sound of the cascadeing roots.

It's a standard bonsai ploy (which I'm sure you know) - when the tree is
dormant, wash off the soil, snip a tap-root, if present, or divert it,
prune the roots if necessary, then arrange the tree roots over a
projecting stone, so that only the ends of the roots are in the soil.

I've put a pic borrowed from a book up at
Loading Image...

Also from the book, the instructions for perpetrating the deed:

Loading Image...

Post by Christopher Norton

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades
The advantage is that you can have a pretty fair-looking bonsai tree in
two years, while your more usual varieties are lagging well behind.

A rather poor pic of it last year (taken with a *VERY* cheapo digital
camera) can be seen at:
Loading Image... - but the roots
appear much thicker than really they are.

Post by Christopher Norton
Get that little electric box of tricks up and running and let us see the
elder. I`m full of curiosity.

I've got to get Win 2000 up and running on the other box - there's not
room on this one for the (better) camera software - indeed, there isn't
enough left for the ZIMACS database to pack...

...and I've got three drives in this box. (Loads in the other - the Zip
is K:\ - but C:\ is interchangeable. I've a Win 98, Win 98SE, Win 2000
Pro and Debian Linux, all separate HDDs in trays.)

[Kay]

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades

Post by Christopher Norton
I like the sound of the cascadeing roots.

It's a standard bonsai ploy (which I'm sure you know) - when the tree is
dormant, wash off the soil, snip a tap-root, if present, or divert it,
prune the roots if necessary, then arrange the tree roots over a
projecting stone, so that only the ends of the roots are in the soil.

I've got the same effect by each year putting another inch of soil in
the bottom of the pot and gradually removing the soil at the top until I
can slip in a stone. Same thing, really - I'm just making sure there's
long enough 'ends' in the soil in advance. Dunno if it's an approved
method, but it works.
I've also got a berberis which isn't particularly pleasing in shape but
makes up for it with flowers, berries and leaf colour.

This year I've grown a pomegranate from seed - I've seen a bonsai'd one
complete with tiny fruit, so that is something to look forward to.

[Christopher Norton]

Post by Kay

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades

Post by Christopher Norton
I like the sound of the cascadeing roots.

It's a standard bonsai ploy (which I'm sure you know) - when the tree is
dormant, wash off the soil, snip a tap-root, if present, or divert it,
prune the roots if necessary, then arrange the tree roots over a
projecting stone, so that only the ends of the roots are in the soil.

I've got the same effect by each year putting another inch of soil in
the bottom of the pot and gradually removing the soil at the top until I
can slip in a stone. Same thing, really - I'm just making sure there's
long enough 'ends' in the soil in advance. Dunno if it's an approved
method, but it works.
I've also got a berberis which isn't particularly pleasing in shape but
makes up for it with flowers, berries and leaf colour.
This year I've grown a pomegranate from seed - I've seen a bonsai'd one
complete with tiny fruit, so that is something to look forward to.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Harry Tomlinsons book perhaps for the pomegranate?

[Jaques d'Alltrades]

Post by Christopher Norton
Harry Tomlinsons book perhaps for the pomegranate?

I have one (courtesy of a charity shop) by H.J.Larkin

[Kay]

Post by Christopher Norton

Post by Kay
This year I've grown a pomegranate from seed - I've seen a bonsai'd one
complete with tiny fruit, so that is something to look forward to.

Harry Tomlinsons book perhaps for the pomegranate?

Which book is that?

[Jaques d'Alltrades]

Post by Kay

Post by Christopher Norton

Post by Kay
This year I've grown a pomegranate from seed - I've seen a bonsai'd one
complete with tiny fruit, so that is something to look forward to.

Harry Tomlinsons book perhaps for the pomegranate?

Which book is that?

Pips With Everything? Goodbye Mr. Pips? The Pied Pipper of Hamelin?

[Christopher Norton]

Post by Kay

Post by Christopher Norton

Post by Kay
This year I've grown a pomegranate from seed - I've seen a bonsai'd one
complete with tiny fruit, so that is something to look forward to.

Harry Tomlinsons book perhaps for the pomegranate?

Which book is that?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Harry Tomlinson is probably the UK`s most known Bonsai artist. His
Bonsai weeks at his Nursery HAVE to be attended by anyone that is
interested in the art.

Do a search on Amazon, his book will come up.

[Pam Moore]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:02:56 +0100, Christopher Norton

Post by Christopher Norton
Harry Tomlinson is probably the UK`s most known Bonsai artist. His
Bonsai weeks at his Nursery HAVE to be attended by anyone that is
interested in the art.

There's also Peter Adams and Dan Barton. Both have written very good
books.
I have met all 3. (Name dropping, I know!) Their expertise is second
to none.

Pam in Bristol

[Christopher Norton]

Post by Pam Moore
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:02:56 +0100, Christopher Norton

Post by Christopher Norton
Harry Tomlinson is probably the UK`s most known Bonsai artist. His
Bonsai weeks at his Nursery HAVE to be attended by anyone that is
interested in the art.

There's also Peter Adams and Dan Barton. Both have written very good
books.
I have met all 3. (Name dropping, I know!) Their expertise is second
to none.
Pam in Bristol

Peter Adams is a wonderful man. I`ll give you a tip and try and get to
see Craig Coussins too.

Are you a member of the IBC Pam?

[Pam Moore]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:58:01 +0100, Christopher Norton

Post by Christopher Norton

Post by Pam Moore
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:02:56 +0100, Christopher Norton

Post by Christopher Norton
Harry Tomlinson is probably the UK`s most known Bonsai artist. His
Bonsai weeks at his Nursery HAVE to be attended by anyone that is
interested in the art.

There's also Peter Adams and Dan Barton. Both have written very good
books.
I have met all 3. (Name dropping, I know!) Their expertise is second
to none.
Pam in Bristol

Peter Adams is a wonderful man. I`ll give you a tip and try and get to
see Craig Coussins too.
Are you a member of the IBC Pam?

No, but used to be member of Bristol Bonsai Society, (Dan Barton) and
went to many nurseries, talks, visited other clubs stc.
I gave up going to meetings when they started the heavy stuff of
hacking, drilling and bleachind and so forth to produce "dead" wood.
I like my trees to look natural. I've had some for nearly 40 years.
Most survive!

Pam in Bristol

[Christopher Norton]

Post by Pam Moore
No, but used to be member of Bristol Bonsai Society, (Dan Barton) and
went to many nurseries, talks, visited other clubs stc.
I gave up going to meetings when they started the heavy stuff of
hacking, drilling and bleachind and so forth to produce "dead" wood.
I like my trees to look natural. I've had some for nearly 40 years.
Most survive!
Pam in Bristol

Jins turn me cold to be honest too. They just look too big on a bonsai
to be natural.

[Jaques d'Alltrades]

Post by Kay
I've also got a berberis which isn't particularly pleasing in shape but
makes up for it with flowers, berries and leaf colour.

Did you grow it from seed? Berberis is notoriously difficult to strike
from a cutting, and I've had a layer pegged down for a year and it
hasn't made any root...

Post by Kay
This year I've grown a pomegranate from seed - I've seen a bonsai'd one
complete with tiny fruit, so that is something to look forward to.

I'm starting some pomegranates (I hope) and I intend having one in a
sort-of lash-up conservatory, but I had considered the bonsai
possibilities.

[Kay]

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades

Post by Kay
I've also got a berberis which isn't particularly pleasing in shape but
makes up for it with flowers, berries and leaf colour.

Did you grow it from seed? Berberis is notoriously difficult to strike
from a cutting, and I've had a layer pegged down for a year and it
hasn't made any root...

No - my husband retrieved it from a garden centre - it was lying under a
bench looking very sorry for itself, and they let him have it free.

[Jaques d'Alltrades]

Post by Kay

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades
Did you grow it from seed? Berberis is notoriously difficult to strike
from a cutting, and I've had a layer pegged down for a year and it
hasn't made any root...

No - my husband retrieved it from a garden centre - it was lying under a
bench looking very sorry for itself, and they let him have it free.

Hmmmm. Must go and hide one up...

Went out today to pick some elderflowers to add to the rhubarb cordial
and found some interesting stones (1 sort-of fossilised squished sea
urchin and others just suitable for use on bonsai trays), two small
oaks, 10 hawthorn seedlings and some sloe suckers.

Oh, and quite accidentally, a tiny greater stitchwort seedling came back
with them, and when it's established in its pot I'll release it amongst
the cowslips, oxslip, toadflax, wild strawberries, meadowsweet, ransomes
etc in the front garden.

[CK]

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades

Post by Kay

Post by Jaques d'Alltrades
Did you grow it from seed? Berberis is notoriously difficult to strike
from a cutting, and I've had a layer pegged down for a year and it
hasn't made any root...

No - my husband retrieved it from a garden centre - it was lying under a
bench looking very sorry for itself, and they let him have it free.

Hmmmm. Must go and hide one up...
Went out today to pick some elderflowers to add to the rhubarb cordial
and found some interesting stones (1 sort-of fossilised squished sea
urchin and others just suitable for use on bonsai trays), two small
oaks, 10 hawthorn seedlings and some sloe suckers.
Oh, and quite accidentally, a tiny greater stitchwort seedling came back
with them, and when it's established in its pot I'll release it amongst
the cowslips, oxslip, toadflax, wild strawberries, meadowsweet, ransomes
etc in the front garden.
--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Rusty ~ can you tell us more about rhubarb cordial please ??? How do you
make it?
thanks,
Chris from Somerset

[Jaques d'Alltrades]

The message <d8fn48$ent$***@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
from "CK"

Post by CK
Rusty ~ can you tell us more about rhubarb cordial please ??? How do you
make it?

I did post the recipe somewhere, but I have a feeling it might have been
in another group. It's posted here now, with the promised citrus
recipes, but in its own new thread.