What cheap material is good for adding to clay soil?

[AL_n]

Anyone advise which kind of bagged compost or esily-available waste
vegetable-matter or mineral is best for adding to very heavy clayey soil,
prior to sowing with grass seed? I'm going to need a a few cwt, so if it's
cheap, I'll be happiest!

TIA

Al_n

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by AL_n
Anyone advise which kind of bagged compost or esily-available waste
vegetable-matter or mineral is best for adding to very heavy clayey soil,
prior to sowing with grass seed? I'm going to need a a few cwt, so if it's
cheap, I'll be happiest!

Gypsum is recommended as a soil improver, but appears to be sold
in garden centres as a proprietary product costing over £6 for
2.5 kg.

http://www.capitalgardens.co.uk/clay-breaker-soil-conditioner-p-6321.html

On the other hand, I picked up a 25 kg bag of multi-finish
plaster for under £5, and AFAIK this is essentially the same
material. It worked well.

Chris

[stuart noble]

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by AL_n
Anyone advise which kind of bagged compost or esily-available waste
vegetable-matter or mineral is best for adding to very heavy clayey soil,
prior to sowing with grass seed? I'm going to need a a few cwt, so if it's
cheap, I'll be happiest!

Gypsum is recommended as a soil improver, but appears to be sold
in garden centres as a proprietary product costing over £6 for
2.5 kg.
http://www.capitalgardens.co.uk/clay-breaker-soil-conditioner-p-6321.html
On the other hand, I picked up a 25 kg bag of multi-finish
plaster for under £5, and AFAIK this is essentially the same
material. It worked well.
Chris

B&Q sell sharp sand labelled as "soil improver". Same stuff in a
different bag is a building product. To be fair though, same price!
It's incorporating the sand into the clay that's the problem.

My favourite improver is vermiculite, but I imagine fly ash might have
similar properties and be relatively cheap in bulk?

[AL_n]

Post by stuart noble
B&Q sell sharp sand labelled as "soil improver". Same stuff in a
different bag is a building product. To be fair though, same price!
It's incorporating the sand into the clay that's the problem.
My favourite improver is vermiculite, but I imagine fly ash might have
similar properties and be relatively cheap in bulk?

Thanks... Yes, I've often heard people say that using sand is a way to deal
with clay, but, as you say, mixing it in might be a problem.

Real, pure clay like mine, is incredibly hard to work. The only tome you
can do much with it is when it has throughly dried out. Then you can
pulverise it somewhat.

What I have done, is break down the clods of clay into small (tennis ball
and golf ball sized limpss, and leveled it all out with a rake. Now I will
probably sprinkle a load of cheap compost (cheapest I can possibly find)
over that and sow the seed into that, and trust nature to eventually break
down the clay. Once I have a lawn crowing, I guess it doesn;t matter too
much what is going on below the surface - except that I've noticed that if
there is too much glay mixed in with the soil, rainwater tends to sit on it
without soaking in.

Thanks..

Al

[Nick Maclaren]

Post by AL_n

Post by stuart noble
B&Q sell sharp sand labelled as "soil improver". Same stuff in a
different bag is a building product. To be fair though, same price!
It's incorporating the sand into the clay that's the problem.
My favourite improver is vermiculite, but I imagine fly ash might have
similar properties and be relatively cheap in bulk?

Thanks... Yes, I've often heard people say that using sand is a way to deal
with clay, but, as you say, mixing it in might be a problem.

The other issue is that you need a LOT. 100 Kg/m^2 is about the
minimum that will have any effect, and that would not have much.
Also, adding a lot of sand will raise the soil level.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[Bob Hobden]

Post by AL_n

Post by stuart noble
B&Q sell sharp sand labelled as "soil improver". Same stuff in a
different bag is a building product. To be fair though, same price!
It's incorporating the sand into the clay that's the problem.
My favourite improver is vermiculite, but I imagine fly ash might have
similar properties and be relatively cheap in bulk?

Thanks... Yes, I've often heard people say that using sand is a way to deal
with clay, but, as you say, mixing it in might be a problem.
Real, pure clay like mine, is incredibly hard to work. The only tome you
can do much with it is when it has throughly dried out. Then you can
pulverise it somewhat.
What I have done, is break down the clods of clay into small (tennis ball
and golf ball sized limpss, and leveled it all out with a rake. Now I will
probably sprinkle a load of cheap compost (cheapest I can possibly find)
over that and sow the seed into that, and trust nature to eventually break
down the clay. Once I have a lawn crowing, I guess it doesn;t matter too
much what is going on below the surface - except that I've noticed that if
there is too much glay mixed in with the soil, rainwater tends to sit on it
without soaking in.

I also garden on clay/silt and what will happen with your lawn is that the
clay will pack down under your lawn and you will have constant problems with
moss etc. It will also be too wet and soft to walk on for most of the
winter. You need to do better preparation and mix in copious quantities of
sharp sand ( a couple of inches deep) with a decent cultivator (they can be
hired) so it's well incorporated in the top 6 inches of soil. That way you
should achieve good enough drainage to have a beautiful lawn.
One problem you will have now is that those lumps you mention will dry on
the surface and become as hard as concrete so you will not be able to break
them up this side of next winter. Never force clay soil, just wait until
it's ready to be worked. BTW Gypsum, like lime, is not a permanent fix for
clay.

[AL_n]

Post by Bob Hobden
I also garden on clay/silt and what will happen with your lawn is that
the clay will pack down under your lawn and you will have constant
problems with moss etc. It will also be too wet and soft to walk on
for most of the winter. You need to do better preparation and mix in
copious quantities of sharp sand ( a couple of inches deep) with a
decent cultivator (they can be hired) so it's well incorporated in the
top 6 inches of soil. That way you should achieve good enough drainage
to have a beautiful lawn. One problem you will have now is that those
lumps you mention will dry on the surface and become as hard as
concrete so you will not be able to break them up this side of next
winter. Never force clay soil, just wait until it's ready to be
worked. BTW Gypsum, like lime, is not a permanent fix for clay.
--

Hi Bob,
I don't think I'll have any problems with moss, as I've done all this
before on another section which I completed last year. On that occasion, I
just dug a good deal of home-made compost into the clayey soil and it has
been satisfactory anough.

Today, due to lack of decent home-made compots, I probably commited one of
the cardianl sins of gardening and dug several cwt of fresh horse-stable
sweepings into the clayey soil (along with a load of gypsum plaster). I
think it's probably unclayey-enough now. I just hope the stable sweepings
and hoss-poo wasn't full of weed seeds... Hopefull it won't be since the
horses were doing their munching at a time of year when dandylions etc,
aren't typically producing seeds.

Al

[Pete C]

Won't digging in Gypsom alter the ph considerably?

[Bob Hobden]

Post by Pete C
Won't digging in Gypsom alter the ph considerably?

Yes but if it's clay it's probably quite acid anyway. We can grow
blueberries on our allotment where it's not been yearly limed and gypsumed.

[bert]

Post by Pete C
Won't digging in Gypsom alter the ph considerably?

No. Unlike lime the products of the chemical reaction are neutral.

[Bob Hobden]

Post by AL_n

Post by Bob Hobden
I also garden on clay/silt and what will happen with your lawn is that
the clay will pack down under your lawn and you will have constant
problems with moss etc. It will also be too wet and soft to walk on
for most of the winter. You need to do better preparation and mix in
copious quantities of sharp sand ( a couple of inches deep) with a
decent cultivator (they can be hired) so it's well incorporated in the
top 6 inches of soil. That way you should achieve good enough drainage
to have a beautiful lawn. One problem you will have now is that those
lumps you mention will dry on the surface and become as hard as
concrete so you will not be able to break them up this side of next
winter. Never force clay soil, just wait until it's ready to be
worked. BTW Gypsum, like lime, is not a permanent fix for clay.
--

Hi Bob,
I don't think I'll have any problems with moss, as I've done all this
before on another section which I completed last year. On that occasion, I
just dug a good deal of home-made compost into the clayey soil and it has
been satisfactory anough.
Today, due to lack of decent home-made compots, I probably commited one of
the cardianl sins of gardening and dug several cwt of fresh horse-stable
sweepings into the clayey soil (along with a load of gypsum plaster). I
think it's probably unclayey-enough now. I just hope the stable sweepings
and hoss-poo wasn't full of weed seeds... Hopefull it won't be since the
horses were doing their munching at a time of year when dandylions etc,
aren't typically producing seeds.

All of which breaks down over time, sand does not.

[bert]

Post by AL_n

Post by stuart noble
B&Q sell sharp sand labelled as "soil improver". Same stuff in a
different bag is a building product. To be fair though, same price!
It's incorporating the sand into the clay that's the problem.
My favourite improver is vermiculite, but I imagine fly ash might have
similar properties and be relatively cheap in bulk?

Thanks... Yes, I've often heard people say that using sand is a way to deal
with clay, but, as you say, mixing it in might be a problem.
Real, pure clay like mine, is incredibly hard to work. The only tome you
can do much with it is when it has throughly dried out. Then you can
pulverise it somewhat.
What I have done, is break down the clods of clay into small (tennis ball
and golf ball sized limpss, and leveled it all out with a rake. Now I will
probably sprinkle a load of cheap compost (cheapest I can possibly find)
over that and sow the seed into that, and trust nature to eventually break
down the clay. Once I have a lawn crowing, I guess it doesn;t matter too
much what is going on below the surface - except that I've noticed that if
there is too much glay mixed in with the soil, rainwater tends to sit on it
without soaking in.
Thanks..
Al

Anything fibrous will help. Horse manure or similar is quite cheap.

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 09:20:42 +0000, stuart noble

Post by stuart noble

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by AL_n
Anyone advise which kind of bagged compost or esily-available waste
vegetable-matter or mineral is best for adding to very heavy clayey soil,
prior to sowing with grass seed? I'm going to need a a few cwt, so if it's
cheap, I'll be happiest!

Gypsum is recommended as a soil improver, but appears to be sold
in garden centres as a proprietary product costing over £6 for
2.5 kg.
http://www.capitalgardens.co.uk/clay-breaker-soil-conditioner-p-6321.html
On the other hand, I picked up a 25 kg bag of multi-finish
plaster for under £5, and AFAIK this is essentially the same
material. It worked well.
Chris

B&Q sell sharp sand labelled as "soil improver". Same stuff in a
different bag is a building product. To be fair though, same price!
It's incorporating the sand into the clay that's the problem.

Roses are good at mixing clay with soil or sand.

Steve

[Emery Davis]

Post by AL_n
Anyone advise which kind of bagged compost or esily-available waste
vegetable-matter or mineral is best for adding to very heavy clayey
soil, prior to sowing with grass seed? I'm going to need a a few cwt, so
if it's cheap, I'll be happiest!

Gypsum is recommended as a soil improver, but appears to be sold in
garden centres as a proprietary product costing over £6 for 2.5 kg.

We used to buy gypsum from the agri coop for, well, cheap. Don't know if
this is still possible. But it was effective in the veg garden.

-E

[AL_n]

Post by Chris J Dixon
On the other hand, I picked up a 25 kg bag of multi-finish
plaster for under œ5, and AFAIK this is essentially the same
material. It worked well.
Chris

Hi Chris,
Wow - that's a cool tip that I haven't heard of before! Many thanks for
that; I will buy some today.

Al